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Forum Zone-2000 • View topic - Stanje u Savezu

Stanje u Savezu

Vijesti, informacije, pitanja, ankete... u najširem smislu

Moderator: :-)

Postby haso » 19 Nov 2008, 08:54

"A od našeg Jablana osta samo priuza."
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no comment :)

Postby vjevejica » 20 Nov 2008, 01:11

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Postby nocomment » 24 Nov 2008, 10:13

Babuka,gdje nam je cedevita!!!
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no comment :)

Postby vjevejica » 24 Nov 2008, 16:31

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Postby lipa » 03 Dec 2008, 15:43

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Postby chupo » 03 Dec 2008, 15:59

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Postby lipa » 03 Dec 2008, 16:56

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Postby dabar » 03 Dec 2008, 18:08

ma jasta ba... kod nas se sve vrti oko tih zvanja...

jel se moze znati sta se to komisiji ne svidja, i kako bi to oni?
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Postby lipa » 03 Dec 2008, 18:30

Konkretno za vodiče kažu da bi trebali prvo završiti početnički i napredni tečaj za alpinistu, ljetni i zimski tečaj za gorskog spasavaoca, tečaj orjentacije i da je učestvovao na nekom takmičenju i da na kraju polaže pred komisijom. A u IFMGA , kad sam sa njima razgovarao , su prvo rekli da mi nismo (misle na cjelovitu BiH sa planinama) u istoj kategoriji kao alpske zemlje jer nemamo vrha preko 3000m, nemamo glečera tako da ne možemo jedan dio edukacija ni izvoditi, nego samo ono što su oni predvidjeli, što je uvršteno u pravilnik. Kod njih je sve podjeljeno spasavaoci, alpinisti itd, a kod nas ...
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Postby motika » 04 Dec 2008, 01:31

znam te licno i znam iz prve ruke kako je i protekla obuka koju ste izvrsili sa ovom zadnjom generacijom...na osnovu toga ti mogu samo cestitati i reci da je to prvi pravi potez bilo kojeg organa/komisije saveza u zadnjih ihahaha...kamo srece da su i ostale komisije tako aktivne...argument komisije za zvanja da vodici trebaju proci sve te silne kurseve ne pije vode, jer za sta ce nam onda gss - i zasto bi gss kao takav nuzno morao iz svojih redova davati vodice!?! osim toga, fino u pravilniku kojim si se vodio stoji za koje visine koja znanja trebaju i ne vidim razborite kontra argumente te komisije izuzev tog - da hoce da ih se nesta pita...uostalom koja je svrha komisije koja ce kontrolirati sve druge komisije? to onda nije komisija nego visi organ od iste, a ako slijedio daljnju logiku za sta ce nam upravni odbor?

sve je puno nelogicnosti, moramo krenuti od statuta,pravilnika,komisija i ko i sta radi, a onda raspravljati o ljudima koji ce to raditi...

ovim principom, jedini koji nesto rade su kaznjeni od samog saveza sto je apsurd...

sretno i nadam se da ce se sve rijesiti na najbolji nacin ;-)
Chupo:"Kako sepa ove Damirove makarone!"
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Postby dabar » 04 Dec 2008, 10:55

ma to je... ono nase... ne znam ni kako bi ga nazvo...al je zaostavstina... ma stari sistem i stara slava... moraju se gss-ovci i alpinisti pitati za nesto. donekle su upravu. mislim da bi trebalo znati bar osnove prve pomoci i alpinizma. cisto da znas nekome pomoci na prvu, da znas covjeka negdje navezati i provuc... ko sto polazes prvu pomoc za vozacki... al brate prolaziti sve te kurseve... pa treba i ta orjentacija... da znas okrenut kompas i kartu... bar na stanarima, da nadjes hranisavu... ko eto da budes faca pred grupom. al sad neka takmicenja i nesto... jel to oni misle na ova takmicenja koja organizuje savez???

elem... nemam kad tipkat... haugh!
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Postby nona » 04 Dec 2008, 13:22

Haj', da malo pametujem. Nek ovo bude jedno od misljenja, rezona, stavova... Sto vise, to bolje, bit ce objektivnij zakljucci na kraju.

Kontam da je potrebno ubacit u rikverc i izmaci se daaaaaleko od te kashe i sagledati situaciju. Odatle stvari izgldedaju ovako:
- Da bi neko bio vodic, alpinista ili spasavalac, potrebno je znanje (to je jasno svima)
Zasto? Pa bez znanja ne mozemo postat to sto bi htjeli, a i sigurnosni aspekt je doveden u pitanje.

- Znanje se stice kroz skole, kurseve, obuke, profesiju i (mozda najbitnije): samoinicijativno jer je licna motivacija najjaci pokretac u bilo cemu.
Dobro, i to je jasno...

- Da bi se to znanje potvrdilo potrebno ga je dokazat (ili verifikovat)
a) u praksi, na primjerima spasavanja, usponima, vodjenju ljudi...
b) od strane neke institucije, npr. neke skole, organizacije... (Kao sto to radi Savez, racunajuci da ima znanje kojim moze verifikovat kvalitet)

Zasto je potrebno dokazati znanje?
Zato da bi se time neko ponudio kao resurs drugima na koji mogu racunat, ali prije svega prihvatio kao taj resurs. Da li ce neko djelovati komercijalno ili kako drugo, nije bitno, to je privatna stvar. Neko to znanje moze sacuvati za samog sebe, nebi ni tu trebalo bit nista cudno.

Nego...
- Zasto bi, u ime (ili bolje reci na racun) kvaliteta koji se najvecim dijelom u praksi stimulise konkurentskim odnosom subjekata, obuke i verifikacije radio iskljucivo jedan organ, ovdje Savez. Savez moze verifikovati samo vlastite kurseve i skole, nakon kojih bi polaznici dobili iskljucivo certifikat da su pohadjali taj i taj kurs, pa nek ga dokazu u praksi, kace macku o rep i rade sta hoce. To i nista vise, nikakva dozvola da se neko zove alpinista, spasavalac ili vodic i da ga ta cinjenica iskljucuje iz toga i toga ili prikljucuje tome i tome (npr. "registrovani alpinista" je apsurdan pojam).

Opet se vracam tezi koja mi se cini sustinskom - planinarske institucije moraju bit iskljucivo servis planinarskoj bazi, i nista vise (Kako to postici u praksi, odgovor nije jednostavan, vjerujem da ih konkurencija s vana i iznutra moze dovesti na potreban nivo). Bilo ko, pa i Savez se mora dokazati kao najbolja skola za obuku "kadrova" (jedna od mnogih, akobogda) i kao najbolji servis za podmirivanje potreba baze. Ako ne, pregazit ce ga konkurencija i novi nacini i subjekti organizovanja koji konkretnije podmiruju interese baze, sto je vec na djelu i sto se ne moze zaustaviti.

E, a slijedeci nivo, koji pravi malo zabune u svemu ovome, je organizovanje pulova, (baza, stanica, kontakt punktova, info punktova ili sl.) radi efikasnijeg djelovanja prije svega spasavalaca i vodica.
Tu bi nacin organizovanja trebalo prepustiti samim "subjektima", nek prave dogovore i ugovore, mi ne bi trebali ni da se mijesamo, ni da kritikujemo. Nama je najbitnije da postoje mehanizmi sprijecavanja monopolizacije (kao sto je to imao Savez i nastoji odrzati), tj. da postoji otvorena mogucnost konkurencije, nase jedine sanse da se uspostavi kvalitetan servis nama.
A mi, ma to smo samo mi, obicni ljudi koji vole planinu, koji vole da djele dozivljaje u planini i iz planine sa drugima i da se u toj planini osjecaju sigurno, ali u tome leze osnovni interesi planinarstva koji su se negdje skroz zaturili u ovim pricama.
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Postby lipa » 05 Dec 2008, 10:17

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Postby dabar » 05 Dec 2008, 18:47

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Postby lipa » 05 Dec 2008, 23:06

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